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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2019 14:04:42 GMT
First, His "appearance" speaks of His "presence" at His Return:
Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The word translated "coming" is parousia denotes an arrival and presence, meaning they come and...stay. In the Rapture...we leave.
Secondly, I am still awaiting your address of the fact that we see physical death for unbelievers at His Return...not everyone being burned up.
Third, you still haven't given a logical reason that people should nullify the Word of God as you do, and remove what actually takes place between His Return and the Great White Throne Judgment, both of which have an intervening thousand years.
Fourth, you argue that there is only one Resurrection when everyone knows that at the Rapture the entire Church is resurrected unto glorified bodies...
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 King James Version (KJV)
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
...but in the First Resurrection of Revelation 20 only those who have died are raised...
Revelation 20:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
...and...
...unbelievers have to wait one thousand years before being raised:
Do I think you will address these issues? No, because you have had pages to do so and yet you ignore these points and continue to teach the exact opposite of what Scripture states.
Continued...
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2019 14:28:33 GMT
There is a thousand year Kingdom, that is seen in the text and follows the Supper of the Great God which is quite distinct from the fire which devours the adversaries of God at the end of the thousand year Reign of Christ:
Revelation 20:4-11 King James Version (KJV)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
We know this is when the universe passes away:
Revelation 21 King James Version (KJV)
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
You aren't going to change the fact that the text teaches that Christ will reign for one thousand years on this earth. If you will note v.9 we see that Satan and his cohorts are on...
...the earth.
There is simply no way to nullify that there is a time period between Christ's Return and the resurrection which includes only believers that died during the Tribulation and the fire which devours the physically living enemies of God at the end of the thousand years.
It is at that time that this current universe passes away, thus fulfilling Peter's prophecy fully.
How can one "closely note" something that is the exact opposite of what Scripture actually states?
The thousand years precedes the passing away of the universe.
I keep trying to help you understand, but you will not listen, lol. We have to understand that Prophecy can have multiple fulfillment, and that is precisely what we see in the following:
Malachi 3 King James Version (KJV)
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
Has this had a fulfillment? yes:
Luke 7:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.
26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Can I suggest to you that the day is coming when "...the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years" will be fulfilled?
Romans 11:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Because you can only comprehend one event at a time, and cannot understand that Prophecy has near and far and complete fulfillment, you cannot comprehend how we can view any visitation of the Lord as a Day of the Lord.
At least try to consider how it might be understood that the Messenger of the Covenant has come and that the Lord has begun the refining process. We call this the Atonement.
Continued...
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2019 14:31:39 GMT
And how did they all die?
Physically.
And that is exactly what happens at Christ's return:
Ezekiel 39 King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.
4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
Revelation 19:17-21 King James Version (KJV)
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
These agree with the Lord's teaching concerning His return and presence (parousia):
Matthew 24:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Luke 17:24, 30-37 King James Version (KJV)
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him,Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Again you teach the exact opposite of what Scripture teaches. You are saying everyone is burned up with fire at His Return, when that is not the testimony of the Lord in these two verses, nor is it the testimony of Revelation 19 which actually shows the very Return of Christ.
The above speaks of physical death for unbelievers, whereas when God does consume men with fire from the earth...
Revelation 20:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Their flesh will not be feasted upon in the second event, but in the first.
I will just keep reposting the same thing, as you do, until you actually address these passages.
Continued...
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Post by Admin on Apr 22, 2019 14:48:02 GMT
Again, an example of Prophecy of two events interwoven in the same passage.
You realize that this is the same thing that happened in regards to Prophecy concerning the coming of Messiah, right? It was not understood He would come twice, and when the Eschatoloy of Scripture didn't meet their expectation they rejected Him and the Prophecy that related to Him. I hate to say it but you are doing the exact same thing those who rejected Christ (including His own disciples) did.
And? Not only does this not help 7you in trying to nullify the events of Revelation 19:17-20:11, you confuse the judgment of unbelievers with the judgment of believers:
In the first quote we have judgment specific to believers, unless you want to say that the lost will be saved:
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
In the second quote Peter's prophecy looks towards that ultimate fulfillment in which this universe passes away. This does not nullify the thousand years seen in revelation 20. Even if you exchange the thousand years in Revelation 20 to a day...
...there is still a period of time between the resurrection of the Tribulation Martyrs and "the rest of the dead," easily identifiable as unbelievers, which is enough to show that this is not the Rapture taught by Paul.
Another reason why we wouldn't view it as the Rapture is the simple fact that the Rapture was a Mystery revealed by Paul, whereas the general resurrection of the dead does not have only believers raised (both alive and dead) nor is there a period of time between the resurrection of the just and the unjust.
So much there for you to shed yourself of the ridiculous doctrine you hold to.
In regards to the final quote, that the earth melted at the presence of the Lord doesn't necessitate an eschatological intepretation:
Psalm 97:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
You really need to start addressing some of the points raised to you.
God bless.
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