Post by Admin on Nov 1, 2018 19:46:11 GMT
A Facebook debater said:
Yes well of Course He taught the Law, because the Law has Not been done away with as most fake Christians claim.
Response: When Scripture speaks of "The Law," it is usually in regards to the Covenant of Law. This includes the concept of the "laws" given in the Law. You cannot divorce the two.
A Facebook debater said:
The point is . ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. So their is no discrepancies between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.
Response: I agree, no discrepancies, but, the difference is the Revelation both worked within. The Lord was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ to the world. You may not be aware of this fact, but, it is seen in the Gospels as well as explicitly taught by Paul, who is the Apostle God revealed this Mystery through in great detail. Are you aware that not one of the disciples of Christ were believing the Gospel until Pentecost? They are unbelievers before and after the Resurrection:
Matthew 16:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Note that "from this time forth" Christ began to speak of the Gospel. This is well into His ministry. Ever wondered why?
John 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
This too is after the Resurrection, and the Gospel is still not revealed to them.
Mark 16:9-14 King James Version (KJV)
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
If the Lord calls them unbelieving, we would do well to agree with Him, no?
A Facebook debater said:
THAT is the point of the OP is it not? You gonna tell me that scripture DISAGREES with itself or that Jesus disagrees with Paul somehow? Stick to the point.
Response: You are confused. A difference between their teachings doesn't imply that their teachings are at odds.
A Facebook debater said:BTW the only Law that was done away with is mentioned in Col. 2:14.
Response: This...
Colossians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
...is a reference to the Covenant of Law, Ed. It is the Covenant that the "laws" are written into, and it is to that Law that all men were held accountable and were in need of being redeemed from, even those who lived prior to the Covenant of Law, because the principles of the Law have never, and will never change, and have always been God's revealed will for man:
Galatians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
And you should really start posting the Scripture you quote, rather than making your antagonists chase them down. You don't want people to think you are like the false teachers who give vague references which, when checked...have no relevance. Oh wait, that is exactly what you are doing.
A Facebook debater said:
It would do you well to make a study of that if you havnt already. It has to do with the Cerimonial Law and Nothing else,
Response: Not exactly proper English, but...baloney:
Galatians 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
As you have said, the Law hasn't changed, and anyone thinking they are keeping "The Law" are likely Judaizers that have no clue what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about:
2 Corinthians 3:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
A Facebook debater said:
which is also called the Mosaic Law.
Response: The Maosaic Law is the Covenant of Law, Ed.
A Facebook debater said:
Which was ADDED because of sin and kept in the SIDE of the Ark, NOT in it.
Response: And it was always meant to be temporary:
Galatians 3:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
A Facebook debater said:
It was "handwritten" by Moses. Its also the sacrificial part of the Law which was done away with as Christ is our sacrifice and by the way the Jews never sacrificed again after that either, since their temple was torn down in AD 70 for denying their Messiah.
Response: The fact is that the Jews continued to sacrifice after the New Covenant was established. One of the primary thrusts of the Book of Hebrews is to convince Jews to embrace the New Covenant. Here is a well known passage understood by few because they wrest the context:
Hebrews 10:26-29 King James Version (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The contrast is between the punishment received by those who rejected the Covenant of Law (Moses' Law) and those that reject Christ, His Covenant, His Sacrifice, and the Ministry of the Comforter. Those who reject Christ will be punished more severely because they had/have received greater revelation, the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ, which is revealed directly to men by the Comforter Himself:
John 16:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
A Facebook debater said:
That you can find in Math. 24.
Response: No, actually you can't.
A Facebook debater said:
ALSO by the way Im pretty sure my statement said Jesus did Not teach the Old Covenant.
Response: You said "Jesus didnt teach the Old Covenant and Paul the New if thats what your saying." I left out the part where you accuse a Moderator of "following you." lol
And my own response was that, yes...He most certainly did. He worked within the framework of the revelation provided to men in that day. There are many examples of His teachings of the Law, such as His rebuke of the wresting of the Law by Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes. He commended men to make sacrifice. He kept the feasts. But the important thing to understand is that HE came to fulfill the Law, meaning...He came as the One the Law pointed to.
A Facebook debater said:
Dont think I ever mentioned the Law.
Response: You did, you just aren't aware that they cannot be divorced.
A Facebook debater said:
I love debating this stuff, fronting off false Christians for what they are.
Response: Oh, so you are the Christian Police Force? You are the one who determines who is a Christian and who isn't? If you are trying to do that through exposing error they hold to, all I can say is, and I quote...
Matthew 7:2-5 King James Version (KJV)
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
A Facebook debater said:
Not saying you of course, havent heard enough of you yet to make that claim.
Response: I'm sure anyone that disagrees with you is automatically condemned by you.
A Facebook debater said:
Most of em stick out like sore thumbs however.
Response: I agree.
A Facebook debater said:
This was all prophesied and we see the apostasy before our eyes.
Response: Not yet we don't. I think we are seeing signs of it, but even with the error of the Catholic/Protestant/Evangelical groups...we still have a lot of people who are trusting in Christ for their salvation.
A Facebook debater said:
Ill tell you this, if you dont see it, you deceived and blind. What say you?
Response: Read above and you will know.
A Facebook debater said:
Thats two subjects. One is their a discrepancy between Jesus and Paul and Two; Mainstream Christians are in apostasy. Opinion?
Response: No discrepancy, but vastly different ministries. That's why we call them dispensations. Christ came only to the Lost Sheep of Israel, whereas Paul was sent unto the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ taught the mysteries of the Kingdom, whereas Paul taught the mysteries of Christ.
Until you understand that, you will be caught up bickering over the Law.
Yes well of Course He taught the Law, because the Law has Not been done away with as most fake Christians claim.
Response: When Scripture speaks of "The Law," it is usually in regards to the Covenant of Law. This includes the concept of the "laws" given in the Law. You cannot divorce the two.
A Facebook debater said:
The point is . ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. So their is no discrepancies between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.
Response: I agree, no discrepancies, but, the difference is the Revelation both worked within. The Lord was not revealing the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ to the world. You may not be aware of this fact, but, it is seen in the Gospels as well as explicitly taught by Paul, who is the Apostle God revealed this Mystery through in great detail. Are you aware that not one of the disciples of Christ were believing the Gospel until Pentecost? They are unbelievers before and after the Resurrection:
Matthew 16:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Note that "from this time forth" Christ began to speak of the Gospel. This is well into His ministry. Ever wondered why?
John 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
This too is after the Resurrection, and the Gospel is still not revealed to them.
Mark 16:9-14 King James Version (KJV)
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
If the Lord calls them unbelieving, we would do well to agree with Him, no?
A Facebook debater said:
THAT is the point of the OP is it not? You gonna tell me that scripture DISAGREES with itself or that Jesus disagrees with Paul somehow? Stick to the point.
Response: You are confused. A difference between their teachings doesn't imply that their teachings are at odds.
A Facebook debater said:BTW the only Law that was done away with is mentioned in Col. 2:14.
Response: This...
Colossians 2:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
...is a reference to the Covenant of Law, Ed. It is the Covenant that the "laws" are written into, and it is to that Law that all men were held accountable and were in need of being redeemed from, even those who lived prior to the Covenant of Law, because the principles of the Law have never, and will never change, and have always been God's revealed will for man:
Galatians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
And you should really start posting the Scripture you quote, rather than making your antagonists chase them down. You don't want people to think you are like the false teachers who give vague references which, when checked...have no relevance. Oh wait, that is exactly what you are doing.
A Facebook debater said:
It would do you well to make a study of that if you havnt already. It has to do with the Cerimonial Law and Nothing else,
Response: Not exactly proper English, but...baloney:
Galatians 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
As you have said, the Law hasn't changed, and anyone thinking they are keeping "The Law" are likely Judaizers that have no clue what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about:
2 Corinthians 3:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
A Facebook debater said:
which is also called the Mosaic Law.
Response: The Maosaic Law is the Covenant of Law, Ed.
A Facebook debater said:
Which was ADDED because of sin and kept in the SIDE of the Ark, NOT in it.
Response: And it was always meant to be temporary:
Galatians 3:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
A Facebook debater said:
It was "handwritten" by Moses. Its also the sacrificial part of the Law which was done away with as Christ is our sacrifice and by the way the Jews never sacrificed again after that either, since their temple was torn down in AD 70 for denying their Messiah.
Response: The fact is that the Jews continued to sacrifice after the New Covenant was established. One of the primary thrusts of the Book of Hebrews is to convince Jews to embrace the New Covenant. Here is a well known passage understood by few because they wrest the context:
Hebrews 10:26-29 King James Version (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The contrast is between the punishment received by those who rejected the Covenant of Law (Moses' Law) and those that reject Christ, His Covenant, His Sacrifice, and the Ministry of the Comforter. Those who reject Christ will be punished more severely because they had/have received greater revelation, the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ, which is revealed directly to men by the Comforter Himself:
John 16:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
A Facebook debater said:
That you can find in Math. 24.
Response: No, actually you can't.
A Facebook debater said:
ALSO by the way Im pretty sure my statement said Jesus did Not teach the Old Covenant.
Response: You said "Jesus didnt teach the Old Covenant and Paul the New if thats what your saying." I left out the part where you accuse a Moderator of "following you." lol
And my own response was that, yes...He most certainly did. He worked within the framework of the revelation provided to men in that day. There are many examples of His teachings of the Law, such as His rebuke of the wresting of the Law by Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes. He commended men to make sacrifice. He kept the feasts. But the important thing to understand is that HE came to fulfill the Law, meaning...He came as the One the Law pointed to.
A Facebook debater said:
Dont think I ever mentioned the Law.
Response: You did, you just aren't aware that they cannot be divorced.
A Facebook debater said:
I love debating this stuff, fronting off false Christians for what they are.
Response: Oh, so you are the Christian Police Force? You are the one who determines who is a Christian and who isn't? If you are trying to do that through exposing error they hold to, all I can say is, and I quote...
Matthew 7:2-5 King James Version (KJV)
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
A Facebook debater said:
Not saying you of course, havent heard enough of you yet to make that claim.
Response: I'm sure anyone that disagrees with you is automatically condemned by you.
A Facebook debater said:
Most of em stick out like sore thumbs however.
Response: I agree.
A Facebook debater said:
This was all prophesied and we see the apostasy before our eyes.
Response: Not yet we don't. I think we are seeing signs of it, but even with the error of the Catholic/Protestant/Evangelical groups...we still have a lot of people who are trusting in Christ for their salvation.
A Facebook debater said:
Ill tell you this, if you dont see it, you deceived and blind. What say you?
Response: Read above and you will know.
A Facebook debater said:
Thats two subjects. One is their a discrepancy between Jesus and Paul and Two; Mainstream Christians are in apostasy. Opinion?
Response: No discrepancy, but vastly different ministries. That's why we call them dispensations. Christ came only to the Lost Sheep of Israel, whereas Paul was sent unto the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christ taught the mysteries of the Kingdom, whereas Paul taught the mysteries of Christ.
Until you understand that, you will be caught up bickering over the Law.