Post by Admin on Oct 14, 2018 14:04:52 GMT
One of the issues we see as a remnant of Catholic influence among Protestants is the failure to properly distinguish between Temporal Justification and Justificatrion on an Eternal Basis with, as a basis, the Redemption which is in Christ Jesus, which speaks of the Work of Christ by which we receive the Atonement, are reconciled to God, and because we are place in Him are born again, receiving of Him Eternal Life through Eternal Union with God. THe following is a statement of a rejection of these points:
Facebook rejection of Temporal Justification of the Old Testament Saint:
I gave it thought. I reject it because it is unbiblical. Abraham was justified. David was justified. This is not a mere temporal justification that you've thought up, but a declaration that they were right with God. And this was, as it is today, based on faith alone.
How was Abraham justified? On what basis? Not on the shed blood of Christ, because Scripture majes it clear over and over that there was a specific poinmt in time when He cane to redeem men:
Galatians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
That you are not seeing temporal justification in Romans 4 is due to the fact that you interpret Romans 3 based on Romans 4, rather than how it should be. Romans 4 is an example of the fact that men can be justified by grace through faith alone, but that doesn't mean we come to the syllogistic conclusion that that the justification of Romans 4 is equal to being freely justified by His grace through the Redemption which is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 4:17-22 King James Version (KJV)
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
What is Abraham's faith in here? Is it not in the fact that God would give him a son? Despite he and his wife's age? Let's look at James:
James 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Are you going to deny the statement of inspired Scripture? It is not open for debate that Abraham was justified by faith...and works. You wouldn't have a conflict with this statement of Scripture if your understanding of the context was correct: in view is temporal justification. If you try to equate this with Eternal Redemption what you must equally conclude, when you back up into the last chapter, is that...
...men can be justified on an eternal basis by giving food to the hungry and clothing to those who are cold.
And I know you don't want to do that, do you?
So let's go on and again examine Abraham's faith:
Galatians 3:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
What is the basis for Abraham's faith here? Is it not the promise of God? Which he never received, never witnessed...except in the promise itself? By this Christ stated "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced." He believed God would bless all families of the earth through the seed, but he didn't know that it was The Seed that was being spoken of.
What is the "Gospel" Abraham heard? It was not the Gospel of Christ, that is clear for two irrefutable reasons:
1) We are told that the Gospel was the limited form of the Promise God gave to Abraham, "In thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed."
2) The Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery:
Romans 16:25-26 King James Version (KJV)
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Ephesians 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Colossians 1:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Now consider the "riches of th glory of this Mystery:" the eternal indwelling of Christ in the believer.
Eternal Indwelling, according to the teaching of Christ, did not begin until He returned to Heaven.
So again I ask you, how is it that you teach that Abraham and David were eternally redeemed in complete contradiction of Scripture...and then call me a heretic, lol.
Abraham was not born again, he had not received the Atonement, He had not been Reconciled to God. See again the New Birth in relation to the Coming of the Christ:
2 Corinthians 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
When did men begin to be in Christ? Was it not when Christ began baptizing men into Himslf that both JEw and Gentile, who both needed Redemption...might become one in Christ?
Again, give these things some thought.
God bless.
Facebook rejection of Temporal Justification of the Old Testament Saint:
I gave it thought. I reject it because it is unbiblical. Abraham was justified. David was justified. This is not a mere temporal justification that you've thought up, but a declaration that they were right with God. And this was, as it is today, based on faith alone.
How was Abraham justified? On what basis? Not on the shed blood of Christ, because Scripture majes it clear over and over that there was a specific poinmt in time when He cane to redeem men:
Galatians 4:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
That you are not seeing temporal justification in Romans 4 is due to the fact that you interpret Romans 3 based on Romans 4, rather than how it should be. Romans 4 is an example of the fact that men can be justified by grace through faith alone, but that doesn't mean we come to the syllogistic conclusion that that the justification of Romans 4 is equal to being freely justified by His grace through the Redemption which is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 4:17-22 King James Version (KJV)
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
What is Abraham's faith in here? Is it not in the fact that God would give him a son? Despite he and his wife's age? Let's look at James:
James 2:21-24 King James Version (KJV)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Are you going to deny the statement of inspired Scripture? It is not open for debate that Abraham was justified by faith...and works. You wouldn't have a conflict with this statement of Scripture if your understanding of the context was correct: in view is temporal justification. If you try to equate this with Eternal Redemption what you must equally conclude, when you back up into the last chapter, is that...
...men can be justified on an eternal basis by giving food to the hungry and clothing to those who are cold.
And I know you don't want to do that, do you?
So let's go on and again examine Abraham's faith:
Galatians 3:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
What is the basis for Abraham's faith here? Is it not the promise of God? Which he never received, never witnessed...except in the promise itself? By this Christ stated "Abraham saw my day and rejoiced." He believed God would bless all families of the earth through the seed, but he didn't know that it was The Seed that was being spoken of.
What is the "Gospel" Abraham heard? It was not the Gospel of Christ, that is clear for two irrefutable reasons:
1) We are told that the Gospel was the limited form of the Promise God gave to Abraham, "In thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed."
2) The Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery:
Romans 16:25-26 King James Version (KJV)
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Ephesians 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Colossians 1:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Now consider the "riches of th glory of this Mystery:" the eternal indwelling of Christ in the believer.
Eternal Indwelling, according to the teaching of Christ, did not begin until He returned to Heaven.
So again I ask you, how is it that you teach that Abraham and David were eternally redeemed in complete contradiction of Scripture...and then call me a heretic, lol.
Abraham was not born again, he had not received the Atonement, He had not been Reconciled to God. See again the New Birth in relation to the Coming of the Christ:
2 Corinthians 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
When did men begin to be in Christ? Was it not when Christ began baptizing men into Himslf that both JEw and Gentile, who both needed Redemption...might become one in Christ?
Again, give these things some thought.
God bless.