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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 22:33:52 GMT
The following is a post on Facebook which the author has given me permission to post here for the purpose of addressing it. I will be addressing it as I can, things are very busy right now:
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 22:34:37 GMT
Mike said: The book of Hebrews vs OSAS:
The whole book of Hebrews refutes OSAS OR eternal security.
Response: And that is something we can look at. I can tell you now you have not understood Hebrews if you think it refutes Eternal Security. It is in fact one of the most confirming books we have concerning Eternal Security, and in fact I view Hebrews 10:14 as the clearest and most irrefutable statement of Eternal Security in all of Scripture.
Mike said: The first century Hebrew Christians who were being persecuted, were thinking of going back to Judaism,
Response: Let's stop there. Those being warned were not thinking of "going back to Judaism," they had never left. IF you want to understand Hebrews you must understand that there are three types in the audience, which the Writer defines as he goes: there are those who are genuinely saved, those who are among the believers but not yet saved, and those who had rejected Christ.
Mike said: rejecting the atonement of Christ, going back into the animal sacrifices for their sins.
Now you are hitting the nail on the head. There were those among the Hebrews who had in fact rejected Christ, His Sacrifice, His Covenant, and the Ministry of the Comforter (the Spirit of Grace) Who was seeking to lead them to Christ (Hebrews 10:26-29). Those in Chapter 6 who were falling away were indeed shoosing animal sacrifice over Christ, and this is how they "crucified Christ unto themselves again," because when they offered up animal sacrifice they repeated the type which spoke of Christ. When men offered up sacrifice under the Law and before the Law it pictured the Sacrifice of Christ.
Mike said: The writer of Hebrews was explaining to them that Jesus sacrifice was superior over the animals and He was also superior over the angels, prophets, Moses etc:
Response: Agreed. Now here is the problem your doctrine has: first, those trusting Christ already knew that, and secondly...no-one in this day and time can commit that sin. Nobody is offering up sacrifice for sin instead of trusting the Sacrifice of Christ (though there are some remote peoples who do offer up sacrifice, though they cannot be said to be doing this according to the Law, seeing there is no Priest to officiate).
Mike said: He also warned them if they went back into Judaism that their punishment be much severer to those who trampled under foot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant, by which he was sanctified and has insulted the Spirit of grace.
Response: Again, they are not going "back" to Judaism, they never left. Your loose quotation of Hebrews 10:26-27 falls short of the reality of the statement:
Hebrews 10:26-29 King James Version (KJV)
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Note they are adversaries, lol, not children of God. Note that they are paralleled with the rejecting Hebrews of the Wilderness (cf Hebrews 3). There is no implication that the Hebrews rejecting God's will in the wilderness were ever believers, and in fact Hebrews 3 makes it clear they were not:
Hebrews 3:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
You are correct the punishment of the one rejecting Christ is going to be more severe than that of those who rejected the Covenant of Law (Moses' Law, v.28), but nowhere do we see anything other than those who have rejected Christ. Now, put on your thinking cap because I want you to see the same statement made in regards to "no more sacrifice for sin, and this is without controversy attributed to those sanctified by the Sacrifice of Christ and made complete in regards to Remission of sins...forever:
Hebrews 10:14-18 King James Version (KJV)
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
In both statements it is said "there is no more sacrifice for sins." For the believer, that is because there is no more need for sacrifice, v.14 makes it clear that Christ has done for the believer what the sacrifice of the Law could never do, take away sin, meaning the penalty for sin, and the need for sacrifice because when we are sanctified by His Blood we are made perfect, that is, complete...forever.
Your interpretation of v.26 has the Writer, and ultimately the Holy Ghost...contradicting Himself.
Mike said: God says, " Vengeance is mine, I will repay," And again, The Lord will judge His people.
Response: And what people is in view, Mike. I will give you a hint...look at the title of the Book. God will judge Israel, that is who this is relevant to, not the Body of Christ. Our sin has been judged in the Person of Jesus Christ. That is just basic to Christian Doctrine.
Mike said: Its is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of a living God. Notice the writer told the Christians if they reject Christ after tasting the fruits of grace, they will be rejected by God and punished. Hebrews 10
Response: I think your thinking of Chapter 6. And what I suggest is that you back up to Hebrews 5 and understand that those who are in danger of falling away are ignorant of the First Principles of the Oracles of God, and are urged to go on unto...perfection. Perfection refers to completion, and they are completely ignorant of the Doctrine of Christ (which teaches of the Completion Christ brought and brings).
This is just a shot across the bow, my friend. In order to get to the bottom of this we are going to need to look at all of these in depth, rather than just brief mentions. I am quite willing to do that with you if you are interested.
God bless.
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 23:02:42 GMT
Mike said: OSAS Scriptures Busters…
I love when God answer the question of OASA, instead of man’s beliefs, don’t you?
Eze 18:24
"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
Eze 18:25
"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?
Eze 33:13
"When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die.
God’s standards for righteousness doesn’t ever change…
According to the Greek and Hebrew..
Response: As already mentioned, this has a physical context. Are you going to say that if men keep the Law (and that is the point here) that they receive eternal life? You will have to stay consistent in your interpretation.
I want you to compare the physical nature of the conditions existing then with the spiritual nature of the Promises of God:
Ezekiel 18:30-32 King James Version (KJV)
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Note the "therefore." This is the concluding remarks of the Lord by the Prophet. See how "the Lord will judge His People?"
Now, I want you to note the command, "make you a new heart and a new spirit," that is the command of God to His people in this Age.
Now see the promise of God to them:
Ezekiel 36:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
In the command of Chapter 18 we see the physical requirement of keeping the Law and that they must get a new heart and a new spirit. In Chapter 36 it is God Who will do this for them. This is the promise of the New Birth, Mike, and if you notice God will put His Spirit within them that they might walk in His statutes and keep His judgments.
Now, let's see the Promise fulfilled:
Acts 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Note that the disciples will receive the promise of the Father which Christ taught them about (cf. John 14, esp. vv.15-23, where we see that the disciples are not yet in Christ, nor are they indwelt by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost yet), and Christ defines this promise as the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. Acts 11:13-18 makes it clear this is the moment when one is eternally saved and receives...eternal life. Now, something you have probably never given thought to before but I suggest is probably the most important thing one will understand is this: no man was born again prior to Pentecost.
God bless.
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 23:25:08 GMT
.
Hebrews 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
...sanctified (hagiazō) refers to the positioning of the believer, meaning he/she is determined to be holy. We can also see the implication of being set apart unto God. This is a reference to Positional Sanctification, not to be confused with Progressive Sanctification.
And if you will notice, we are sanctified once (for all is an insertion of the translators). If you begin in Hebrews 10:1 you will see the context is that of Remission of sins, the point being made that animal sacrifice cannot take away sins, and it cannot make one perfect, the Greek meaning being that of "a bringing to an end," literally "completion." He asks in v.2 "Would they not have ceased to be offered if they could make one complete? But they did not cease to be offered until Christ died in our stead. The context remains consistent in this context as he continues:
Hebrews 10:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
He drives it home that the Priests had to continually offer up sacrifice to obtain remission of sins. Because Christ has made us complete in regards to remission of sins He has taken away sins, and specifically...the penalty for sins. He took that on Himself. When He died on the Cross He was alone, it was not Jesus and Mike, dying for your sin, it was not Jesus and Darrell dying for my sin, it was Jesus the Christ dying for our sins.
When you make vv.26-29 mean a believer loses his salvation you completely deny what the Writer, and the Holy Ghost...make abundantly clear.
We have been made complete by Christ through His offering of Himself...forever. You cannot change that. So if you love it when God defeats the doctrines of men through His Word then you should repent of the doctrine you are teaching, which is a denial of the Cross of Christ and pretty much most of what the New Testament teaches.
God bless.
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 23:41:43 GMT
Alexander said: Isaiah 53: talks about a root out of dry ground. roots are meaning blood line and the past. thats how we look at them.we have sayings like "I got baptist roots or I got celtic roots denoting origin. so a root out of dry ground is impossible. it shows a holy root. (the hebrew word there is Netsir i think wich is the offshoot of a tree that is seperate from the tree itself) and if the root is holy... the vine is holy. This is Jesus This is he who came by water and by blood. and His root reaches back beyond the dry ground (natural) and started in eternity. and that same water (the woman at the well water) is the Holy Spirit. the same water that goes through the root system is the same water that go through the vine and into the branches. this is the true vine. and it is the spirit. Jesus taught that His words are Spirit and they are life.So if we have His words abiding in our heart (the love of God) then HE is in those words. and His words produce fruti. and herein is His father glorified. any branch that does not bear friut shows proof that His word is not abiding in them.. therefore are cut off and then when thier natural life ends they are tossed into the fire. so any vine that is common... natural... ordinary.. according to the flesh... the seed of Adam who ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. that tree had roots.. just as the tree of life had roots... and we are to be rooted and grounded in faith and love growing in the grace of God. any other vine wont have the friut (notice fruit in the singular not the plural) the fruit of the spirit starts from His love. then grows into these other characteristics and attributes of character and conduct and state and standing.
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2018 23:41:59 GMT
6
Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If you back up to Chapter 5 you will see the warning in view is given to those among the Hebrews that are ignorant even of the ABCs of the Doctrine of Christ in the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament, the Scripture available to them in that day), called the First Principles of the Oracles of God. They are urged to go on (progress from, rather than abandon: we wouldn't abandon the basic principles of the Doctrine of Christ any more than we would abandon 2+2=4 when we learn algebra)unto perfection...
Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
So what we have are those in danger of remaining in the First Principles (which would have meant continuing in the Law), and what is meant by "crucifying Christ unto themselves again" is to again sacrifice Christ in figure, type. It is "to themselves" because in reality Christ cannot be crucified again.
These are not born again Christians, these are Hebrews in danger of falling away from the truth they are receiving, which truth is the completion Christ has brought to the Prophecy and the Law concerning Him, which are the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ. And one of the things that they must "go on unto" is belief in the Sacrifice of Christ, rather than belief in the God given provision of vicarious animal death for atonement and remission of sins (which was temporary, as opposed to Christ's which makes one complete in regards to remission of sins forever (Hebrews 10:14).
God bless.
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